Have to love the antis, they make blog fodder so readily available; especially on the days when I’m not up to the task coming up with original material.
It is hard to find a more zealous group than conceal carriers. Like George Zimmerman, who killed Trayvon Martin in Florida last year, they see “bad guys” everywhere, have a high fear level and flatter themselves that they are keeping themselves and others safe.
Well, let’s break this down into parts A, B & C.
Part A is the apparent behavior and actions of Trayvon Martin; suspected of burglaries, admitted drug use, illegal fights — while nothing has been proven (because the school in an attempt to lower its crime rate didn’t report it), his actions match those of a ‘bad guy’. And given that so far, no evidence has contradicted Zimmerman’s story, it really does look like Martin was the one who initiated violence; I think that also qualifies as a ‘bad guy’.
Part B is the fear; sorry I don’t care if it is psychological projection or just trying to portray me in a bad light but it isn’t ‘fear’. It is a healthy, normal and logical evaluation of the facts (there is crime, police aren’t everywhere, response time measured in minutes) that lead me to carrying a firearm.
Part C is simpler, I am keeping myself safe and the only others I focus on is my family. Statistically Concealed Handgun license holders in the State of Texas are law abiding more so then the non-carriers. And anecdotal evidence (I haven’t been attacked, mugged, robbed car-jacked, etc) suggests that something is working.
Both are fantasies. Two years ago, the TV show 20/20 tested whether carriers could defend themselves against an armed assailant who they knew would storm the room they were in.
Stop, First out right lie. 20/20 admitted in their presentation that the volunteers expected the attack to take place later in the day, not in the room they were in.
Even with advance warning none of the carriers stopped the assailant even though some were well trained in firearms. Some carriers came close to injuring themselves and others had the ammo been live. Oops.
Wow….more lies and distortions; wish I could say that I was surprised. I believe only one of the ‘volunteers’ was ‘well trained in firearms’ — Air Soft doesn’t count. So people who were given training that set them up to fail — the training was given without gloves and with the firearm readily accessible and the test with gloves, helmet and holster concealed under incredibly long shirts — and still several managed to score hits on the attacker. Yep most would have died but given the attacker shot the ‘teacher’ then turned directly toward the ‘volunteer’ every single time who was sitting in the same spot every single time might have something to do with that.
And I don’t remember a single other person who was hit despite some of the actors crossing directly in between the ‘attacker’ and the volunteer’.
Why not use data available to the public or actual cases where people have defended themselves against criminals,eh? Perhaps because you couldn’t make your point that way?
On cue, gun zealots cried the 20/20 test conditions were “unfair,” as if conditions in real life would be fair and offer perfect conditions for them to demonstrate their conceal carry advantage. Right.
See pointing out the obvious rigging of the scenario isn’t crying unfair; it is showing the lengths that anti-rights cultists like you will go to. Why not use data available to the public or actual cases where people have defended themselves against criminals,eh? Perhaps because you couldn’t make your point that way?
Time and time again we have actual, verifiable, publicly vetted incidents where Concealed Carry have saved lives and stopped crimes. Talk about those, scrutinize those if you truly want to be ‘fair’.
It is obvious conceal and carry does not protect the carriers or stop bad guys, unless you consider Trayvon Martin a bad guy.
Of course there are people who disagree with that statement. Would it surprise you to know one of them is a Gary Kleck?
One of the naysayers was Gary Kleck, a Florida State criminologist who calls himself “as liberal as they get.”
He studied the issue and guess what he found?
Kleck has authored numerous books and articles over the last 20 years, but none garnered as much national attention as his 1994 National Self-Defense Survey which, based on a survey of 5,000 households, concluded that there were far more incidents where gun owners defended themselves against potentially violent crime than there were actual crimes involving the use of guns.
Yep people with guns stopping crimes. Now admitted this isn’t a study of concealed carry but can you point to a study (not a google search conducted by the VPC) that shows otherwise?If there was any validity to your claims; there would be an increase in crime while the number of concealed carry permits increases. Yet in most states the opposite is happening. Coincidence? Could be but definitely not a case of
But there is a more deadly side to conceal carry. Since 2007, conceal carriers have been responsible for 494 U.S. civilian deaths, 23 mass shootings and the death of 14 law enforcement officers, according to data compiled by the Violence Policy Institute. States began loosening conceal carry laws, says the Institute, in 1996 when Tanya Metaksa, executive director of the National Rifle Association’s Institute for Legislative Action, told lawmakers, “these citizens don’t commit violent crimes.”
Let’s put those numbers into perspective shall we; from 2007 to 2010 (source WISQARS), there were 47,382 homicides. So not counting the homicides in 2011, 2012 and year to date; that percentage is 1.04% of all homicides were committed by ‘Conceal Carriers’. I would bet if the last 2.5 years were added in that rate would drop under 1%. Can you name another group that has a crime rate that low?
I’m not Ms. Metaksa and I’ve never have said “don’t commit violent crimes”. I have said the rates in which Conceal Carriers commit crime is lower than the non-carriers and definitely lower then the criminal rates for the group Mayors Against Illegal Gun
There was just one problem with her assurance. She was wrong.
A staggering 1,400 people licensed for conceal carry in Florida have pleaded guilty or no contest to felonies, the Gainsville Sun reported upon reviewing records. Two hundred and sixteen had outstanding warrants, 128 had active domestic violence injunctions and six were registered sex offenders. Are these the “good guys”?
I’ll let this post from the Democratic Underground answer for me:
||If you examine the Florida statistics… you may find the further proof.
Every month Florida publishes a web page that shows a lot of data about permit holders. It’s located at http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html
As you look at the page you will find that between October 1, 1987 – January 31, 2009
Florida issued 1,445,522 concealed carry permits.
Currently there are 547,276 valid licenses.
And a total of 166 licenses have been revoked because of a crime that involved a firearm.
The statistics show Florida permit holders are not perfect, but commit far less crime than most other groups of people.
Permit holders are not angels, but they are an unusually law-abiding collection of citizens. In Florida, for example, permit holders are about 300 times less likely to perpetrate a gun crime than Floridians without permits.
One of the first clues that the anti-rights cultists are lying or attempting to distort the truth is not putting the numbers into context, as in “1,400 people licensed for conceal carry in Florida have pleaded guilty or no contest to felonies”. Out of how many, over how many years, etc.
In nearly 80 percent of 300 deadly incidents, “the concealed carry killer has already been convicted (126), committed suicide (167), or was killed in the incident (seven),” says the Violence Policy Institute. “Of the 67 cases still pending, the vast majority (55) of concealed carry killers have been charged with criminal homicide, four were deemed incompetent to stand trial, and eight incidents are still under investigation.”
Enough people have so thoroughly debunked the Violence Policy Institute study it has to be willful ignorance or deliberate attempt to mislead to include it in a new post. I’ll leave it up to the reader to decide which (or both) the fits the author.
It is hard to believe state legislators would allow a policy that kills their finest. Among the 508 citizens killed by conceal carriers since 2007, compiled by the Institute, are Alabama, police officer Philip Davis, Tampa police veteran Corporal Mike Roberts, U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agent Donald Pettit and Springfield, Mass., police officer Kevin Ambrose. Four of the slain officers were killed by white supremacists, an increasingly vocal component of the armed citizens movement.
Notice how she doesn’t discuss how many of those 508 were criminals. The fact that out of the 508 — in a country with a population of 300,000,000; remember context matters – she can only highlight a few regretful incidents were law enforcement officers were murdered is very telling.
But more importantly Ma’am; I didn’t commit those murders. No more than you killed your children, murdered your spouse or any other crime. You shouldn’t be restricted in the exercise of your rights for the misdeeds of others, neither should I.
Incredibly, Jared Lee Loughner, who shot Arizona U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords and killed six people in 2011, was a legal conceal carrier because Arizona does not require a permit of any type to carry a concealed handgun outside of the home.
And his mental health issues which might have disqualified him from even owning a firearm were never reported. His family never seemed to get him the help he needed. Nor did they, the state, the school system, the police ever declare him a danger to himself or others. Want to help reduce the death toll; improve the mental health system in the country.
Conceal carriers also include the mass shooters Omar Thornton, who killed eight at a beer distributorship in Connecticut in 2010, and Gerardo Regalado, who killed four women and wounded three in Florida in 2010. Mass shooter Paul Michael Merhige, who killed his twin sisters, a 76-year-old aunt and a 6-year-old cousin at a Thanksgiving dinner in Florida, was also a legal conceal carrier. Thank you, NRA. Thank you, gun lobby. Let’s enforce existing laws!
Please tell me how any change short of and include total disarmament of the population would have stopped any of those murders. The truth is nothing would have. People willing to murder aren’t going change their plans because they can’t carry concealed. Most of the murders you highlight didn’t even involve the weapon being concealed in public. the Thanksgiving dinner murders for example happened in a residence; not exactly covered by concealed carry laws.
Anti-rights cultists have to blur the lines like this in order to trick the public into thinking there is a legislative solution.
Commensurate with the bully personality, conceal carriers have a high fear level and are afraid to go the same places normal, unarmed people go every day. They want to carry in national parks, on trains, near schools and in gun free zones to protect against the omnipresent “bad guys.” Yet, in at least 500 recent shootings, the conceal carriers are the bad guys.
Right, psychological project perhaps? We, concealed carriers, go to all those places and many more. We, concealed carriers, aren’t so fearful of our fellow citizens we try to disarm them. Instead we recognize there are people willing to kill, rape, rob and assault us in all those places and more.
What we really are after is not having to disarm or break the law when we go to those places. Can you name a single type of ‘gun free zone’ where there has never been a crime committed?
I don’t think you can but if you do prove it, I’ll donate $50 to the Brady Campaign.
Again, let’s look at that statement “in at least 500 recent shootings, the conceal carriers are the bad guys”; in Texas alone there are over 500,000 people with a concealed handgun license. 500 represents just 0.1% of that number !
So your statistics (which you unscrupulously avoid) indicates the problem isn’t as dire as you proclaim.
Take action for sane gun laws. Make the TELL AND COMPEL pledge.
You are so fearful of people who carry firearms that you want to disarm them and you have the nerve to talk about ‘sane’?
I have my doubts.
Please join the discussion
(H/T to The Duck)