Let’s Not Argue Like The Antis

Please, I really beg some of the people on our side to learn how to debate and to do so with some decorum.  Yeah, I know I shouldn’t expect much from an FB discussion group…..but the number of people who actually argue like the antis is quite small. There has been some great points raised about the two recent laws but in a discussion about Campus Carry; it’s obvious some people never were taught how to debate or logic.
The question came up as to why the implementation of Campus Carry has been scheduled for Fall of 2016 for Universities and major Colleges – 2017 for Junior Colleges.
My answer was simple – colleges need time to do it right and do it in such a way so the gun control advocates will not be able to overturn it in the courts.

Example #1

  • Person T  I think its fair that they gave this time. To train campus security and police to handle everything and develop systems and practices and teach their officers how to handle it.
  • Person M —  There’s nothing to train… It’s legal.

Right….140 something years (I think) of Campus Carry being illegal and someone is saying there is no reason to train campus security or police otherwise. I think the vast majority of people recognize how simply inane that is.

Example #2  Person J

So, putting aside the vitriol, your answer is that colleges need time to enforce the law properly, communicate to students and train professionals. Aren’t those all the role of the State? Aren’t all these time-consuming tasks already being handled by the rest of us? Colleges think they are their own little empires and can interpret the First and Second Amendment however their little liberal minds choose.

 

The first line fails to distinguish between developing procedures and policies in accordance with the law and “enforcing the law” — I thought  police and the courts enforced the law. And yes, continuing with the first line, administrations do need time to communicate with the students. In fact, it is required by the law !!

(d-1) After consulting with students, staff, and faculty of  the institution regarding the nature of the student population, specific safety considerations, and the uniqueness of the campus environment, the president or other chief executive officer of an institution of higher education in this state shall establish reasonable rules, regulations, or other provisions regarding the carrying of concealed handguns by license holders on the campus of
the institution or on premises located on the campus of the institution. The president or officer may not establish provisions that generally prohibit or have the effect of generally prohibiting license holders from carrying concealed handguns on the campus of the institution. The president or officer may amend the provisions as necessary for campus safety. The provisions take effect as determined by the president or officer unless subsequently amended
by the board of regents or other governing board under Subsection  (d-2). The institution must give effective notice under Section 30.06, Penal Code, with respect to any portion of a premises on which license holders may not carry.

Yes, the legislative actually requires the administrations to at least talk to the students. Not follow their advice (which can be good or bad) but talking to a couple thousand people or at least setting it up to do so is going to take some time. Acting on the information given isn’t going to happen over night.  And yes, making sure that campus security and the campus police are aware of and can properly interpret the requirements and restrictions of the new policies takes time. Again – we are overturning decades of previous habits and training. Change takes time in some cases.

And let’s continue – with the next line and talk about lessons we should have learned in civics class in high school. No, developing policies and procedures for universities and colleges is not the role of the state.

 

This is the one that got my goat. Example #3 – Person J

I simply asked you to defend your position that colleges should be allowed to each make up their own laws regarding campus carry.

 

That is such a straw man argument I was shocked it didn’t come from the mind of a gun control advocate. Seriously. For those of you who know me in real life, I’ll give you the link to the FB argument if you want it. I’d advise against looking; it might make your brain pop. Regardless anyone who knows me, knows that I would never argue that colleges ‘should be allowed to make up their own laws’. Nothing in my statements could be remotely twisted to mean that. I asked three times for him to quote my words
Again this is about not making our side indistinguishable from the antis — that type of attack is beneath us. We can discuss if 14 months is too long. We can discuss why it is reasonable to make sure the rules the schools come up with can withstand a court challenge in a reasonable debate.

 

I just want to close and make sure I say this. I am not saying it is wrong to think the legislative made a bad decision. I’m not saying it is wrong to think the law should be enacted quicker. I’m not saying you have to agree with campus carry or not. — Those are all valid opinions; just don’t argue like the antis is all.

Please join the discussion.

But Remember — We are Losing :)

Anti rights cultists have to keep telling themselves that. Unfortunately things like this are showing how wrong they are.

 

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Not just the fact that more women are shooting then ever but that a California news station put this on the air.

I’m alive….

just not keeping ahead of the work to be done.

And the cold just makes me want to curl up in bed under a couple dozen blankets

Local Media Getting It Right

Very impressed with Tim Ryan and Fox4 — the details and knowledge of the Concealed Handgun License and applicable laws is well presented.

 

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Dallas News | myFOXdfw.com
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This action and the statement on the news station website show why I don’t go to AMC Theaters for the most part.

 

AMC Theatres

For the safety of our guests and associates, we do not permit weapons in our theatres. However, we welcome off-duty officers as guests at AMC and they are exempt from this policy with official identification. Based on the information we’ve received, the guest did not show an official department identification card and our theatre team properly enforced this policy. We have reached out to the guests to discuss the situation directly with them.
AMC Theatres (to use their spelling) are a private enterprise. They are free to prohibit concealed carry on their property; although as a public accommodation, I could make a case otherwise. I won’t. I’ll just abide by their wishes as much as I can and not patronize them.
I do think this is a step forward when the media gets the facts and the law down as well as Tim Ryan did. Good job sir.

Scattered Thoughts on Kolbe Decision

Random Thoughts from the  Kolbe Decision.

Assuming that recent sales have increased the number of assault weapons in the
current civilian market to nine million, such weapons would represent about three percent of the civilian gun stock.

 

Let’s see — 12,000 homicides with all firearms around 475,000 firearm related violent crimes per year according to the Bureau for Justice Statistics. Even if every homicide and firearm related violent crime was accomplished by a separate gun owner (estimated around 46,000,000) that means rounding up for easier math 500,000 divided by 46,000,000 times 100 to express as a percentage — 1.09% of all gun owners were involved in a homicide or firearm related crime ! Half the percentage of gun owners.

Even if we estimate firearm at the low side of 270,000,000 — that would be 0.019% of all firearms being used in a crime each year. Heck even if every gun crime was committed by ‘an assault weapon” (9,000,000 per the decision) that is still only 5.55% of all the assault weapons being used in a crime each year. What does she think that other 94.45 % are being used for?

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Further, although the court recognizes the need to build proficiency with a firearm for the purposes of hunting or self-defense, there has been no indication from the Supreme Court that competitive marksmanship in itself is a purpose protected by the Second Amendment.

Oh, Joy….look at that. The court recognizes the need to be proficient but that competitive marksmanship — a sport that predates the founding of our country isn’t protected.

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2 Trouble Spots – Half Way Around the World Apart

First location is ‘near’ most of us:

Ferguson, Missouri (CNN) — Late night protests in Ferguson, Missouri, over the shooting death of Michael Brown, dispersed after bottles flew at officers, who answered with tear gas, police said Wednesday.

Protesters gathered in the St. Louis suburb for a fourth day and shouted at police officers.

“Don’t shoot!” they said, holding up signs protesting Brown’s killing. “No justice, no peace!”

Blocks away from where the protests took place, there were two shootings. But police do not believe the violence was related to the protests.

4 Days of violence and unrest. Minor by comparison to what is happening half way around the world in Iraq.

(CNN) — In an exodus of almost biblical proportions, thousands trudge across a river to escape killers belonging to the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or ISIS.

Entire families carry nothing but the clothes on their back. Some are barefoot. And not everyone who set out on the arduous journey survived.

Jamal Jamir, a 23-year-old university student from Sinjar, told CNN his family fled into the barren and windswept Sinjar Mountains more than a week ago after ISIS captured their town. They spent days on the mountain, desperately waiting for air drops of food and water.

The family then escaped the mountain on foot, and made a marathon 15-hour journey to Syria. We met them as they crossed a bridge back into Kurdish-controlled Iraq.

What do they have in common? The fact that the ‘state’ either can not or will not protect the individuals. The police in Ferguson Missouri eventually tried to stop the looting Sunday Night; but to do that they pulled nearly every officer in the city and surrounding cities.

This is where the “individual ”  portion of the right to keep and bear arms is most acutely displayed — self defense. Individuals may be caught up as a victim of the rioting, they may be required to defend their homes, business or self against one or more people. The ability, skills and equipment needed to do so have to be protected so that groups can be formed to react to larger problems.

Think of how easy it would be for a mob to form in front of or around an Amory and keep the militia from accessing armament to respond to the problem. This is why Law Enforcement started carrying rifles and shotguns in their cars.

When ISIS approached their town, Jamir and his family fled to the Sinjar Mountain, where they spent days camping and desperately waiting for aid. The family finally escaped on foot.

A senior Kurdish official estimated that as many as 70,000 people remain trapped on Mount Sinjar, and that at least 100 have died so far from dehydration and the heat.

The situation in Iraq on the other hand is an example of the “Militia” side of the argument. 70,000 people remain trapped. Let’s go with just those numbers and not even consider how many people have already fled as refuges that could have been part of the solution.

70,000 people, let’s assume that half are kids. 35,000 people — let’s assume that half are women — and due to cultural reasons unwilling or not allowed to fight. 17,500 men left. Half too old or too young to fight — still leaves 8,500 men of fighting age. That would be nearly a force equal to an army division.

Even if half of them are willing to fight (4,250); that puts the strength at a short brigade strength wise or an over-sized regiment !

Estimates put the fighting strength of Isis in Syria and Iraq at around 7,000 but its numbers in Iraq appear to have been bolstered by other groups, including local Sunni militants and Ba’ath nationalists particularly in Tikrit. Despite claims that they have captured helicopters in Mosul, it seems unlikely they would be able to deploy them. Lightly armed with Toyota pickup technicals, RPGs and small arms, Isis has captured some armoured Humvees, although there are suggestions that some equipment has been sent back to Syria.

So they would have near parity or half the numbers of ISIS fighters in Iraq. Training and organization would be lacking by comparison but the defensive advantages would help compensate, right?

Even if fewer people were armed and fought – even with what American citizens generally own – semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, bolt action rifles and pump shotguns, think of the change in tactics and rate of advance it would make.

This is why the 2nd Amendment protects the right of the armed people to form a militia. Because the state can not or will not always be there to protect people.

Two different examples, two different situations entirely but both support the idea that the people should be

Tell Me Again, How People Don’t Need….

“High Capacity” magazines, AR-15 type rifles and militias. Carefully note the police response to the riot in Ferguson Missouri.

What began as a peaceful protest of the shooting of an 18-year-old unarmed black man by a police officer in a St. Louis suburb turned into what the town’s mayor called a “huge mess” as several businesses were looted and cars were vandalized.

A candlelight vigil was held Sunday evening in Ferguson, Mo. for Michael Brown, whom witnesses and authorities said was shot several times by an officer who had scuffled with the teen and another person. 

Afterward, some people looted a convenience store. Several other stores along a main road near the shooting scene were broken into and looted, including a check-cashing store, a boutique and a small grocery store.

People were seen carrying bags of food and toilet paper. TV footage showed streams of people walking out of a liquor store carrying bottles of alcohol, and in some cases protesters were standing atop police cars or taunting officers who stood stoic, often in riot gear.

The police stood by as people broke the law and stole property. The police “stood stoic” as the livelihood of others was taken.

Police Department

The Ferguson Police Department provides protection of life and property in Ferguson through the enforcement of laws and ordinances and assistance with emergency medical services.

Except where they could get hurt or further inflame tension……then you are on your own.

 

St. Louis County Executive Charlie Dooley said there were no reports of injuries but confirmed widespread property damage. “Right now I’m just worried about people, not property,” he said.

Not worried about property! So it is okay for rioters to loot as long as they aren’t hurting people physically? This is insane folks. The local government and law enforcement simply abandoned their responsibility.

 

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Brian Schellman, with the St. Louis County Police Department, said close to 300 police officers from at least 15 different departments were called to Ferguson when angry mobs began smashing windows, setting fires and looting businesses in the area.

Let that sink in for a moment also. Think carefully about the potential consequences and how it could impact other communities. 15 different departments sent officers to 1 city for one small/medium riot.

Now imagine if there were riots in multiple cities; would the police be able to protect individuals? Would they even been willing? This isn’t a slam on most cops; although it may seem that way. Most cops want to do the right thing and protect people but in some situations, like riots, we’ve seen them abandon people in order to maintain their own safety.

Day 1
The riots happened quickly. Liquor stores, chain stores, fast-food places, and white people were the main targets of looting, fire, and violence. On the first day of the riots, the most infamous event took place. Reginald Denny, a white truck driver, was crossing Florence and Normandie. He was pulled out of his car by Damian Williams, a resident of the area. He was severely beaten while a helicopter recorded the incident. Williams took a piece of concrete and slammed it against Denny’s head and then celebrated. Denny barely survived. The police were withdrawn from South Central, and the 110 Freeway was closed from Century to King. The media concentrated on this attack throughout the riots. They did not report that Fidel Lopez, an immigrant from Guatemala, suffered similar brutality.

Day 2
The riots were more organized and South LA began to burn. Korean store owners came to defend their stores and had gunbattles with rioters. There were not any police or National Guard present at this point as LA burned.

Day 3
Rodney King was put on TV and asked LA, “can we all get along?” People could not at this point. The police and National Guard continued to let the city burn as a huge power outage hit South Central.

Day 4 and 5
The National Guard enters South Central and begins to restore order. There are random areas of violence for days on end.

Result
In the end, 53 people were killed, most all were rioters or innocent victims. Over $1 billion in damages were done. People rioted because of the built up anger and frustration of recent events.

 

And that isn’t the only time it’s happened. The police in New Orleans mostly abandoned the city — where they didn’t join in the looting.

Negro cops joining other Negroes/blacks/African-Americans in looting and pillaging New Orleans in the aftermath of the devastation caused by hurricane Katrina.

Negro cops joining other Negroes/blacks/African-Americans in looting and pillaging New Orleans in the aftermath of the devastation caused by hurricane Katrina.

Those who say the “militia is outdated, antiquated, no longer in use” should look to see how the people in L.A. and New Orleans responded. They should look to the fact that looting is usually countered by the people working together. On the whole people do respond well in emergencies; working together to rescue people, to clean up an area. And to respond to those who would commit crimes.

 

Reality keeps showing how flimsy the anti-rights cultists arguments really are; Don’t fall for them. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is just as vital now as it was 200 years ago.

 

Please Join the Discussion.